A Bright Bulb for current PvP System

[max1808]

As we all know and some still feel the current PvP system is not good.
Repetitive GY camping is still happening even with the new debuff. (I dont camp :p)
Some murderers (like me :D) still like to remain branding themselves as murderers.
Well i just might have a suggestion on penalties for murderers.

At the moment, the penalty a murderer face when they die is losing everything he/she have on their backpack(except notrade/quest/equipments).

I suggest another penalty should be added whereby they must NOT be allowed into any cities for any purpose at ALL :D. Implementing this, a murderer cant bank items, money or even stock reagants. His whole murderer life is just out in the wild. If they attempt to enter, the Arder gods must instantly cast a debuff on them giving them -50% atk, -50% def and -50% of total HP. That murderer cant cast any spells AT ALL from his atk bar and all his/her buffs are taken off (basically a lvl 25 can kill a lvl 50 murderer with no trouble). This debuff should at least last for 1 hour. Sometimes some city maybe dead ie, no other players there, so the soldiers that guard that city should take initiative, attack and kill the murderer (at least they work instead of just walking around doing nothing :p). Also murderers SHOULD NOT be allowed to do any trades with another player (his/her innocent friend will be good enough to buy and stock the murderer's reagants :p)

At this point, some murderers cant stand this penalty and they will want pardon....but then they cant enter city to the townbook, cuz they will be raped :p
So for this matter, a new command for pardon must be implemented too.
Say maybe its /pardon and the pardoning window pops out. He/She can request pardon even while in the styzzy swamp hiding themselves :p

Some may say "Dam my name is now red cause i wanna play PvP among my friends, now I cant get to enter the city, I wanna quit this game!"

Well for this, i suggest these players should go to the PvP Arena in Helmstead (it's badly abandoned since i was playing in beta, maybe there should be more arenas). They must be able to do friendly PvP's on it whereby at the end of that PvP, none of their status should change ie, if both are white, they should remain the same status.

Well this arena thing isn't implemented yet i think(your name still changes to red if u fight on it), so if our good & adorable admins can view this thread and maybe decide to make some necessary tweaks on the current PvP, we might have a chance to play safe and have fun throughout the whole game.

This looks like a big drastic move to be honest. But think on the bright side. If this is implemented, most players now are preferrably safe out in the wild. A player will think twice before even wanna become an outlaw :D (probably scared his/her spell will kill the target in a single hit lol). At the same time, if you arent satisfied with another player, both of u can go to the arena that i mention, and PvP for the rest of the day till you guys are satisfied :)

Well i hope this post is reviewed and yes, more comments are welcomed too :)

maxblade
Justice League

[aj8560]

i like it :D

[Pat2]

Max,

I like you thoughts and yes a murderer should have stiff penalties for killing an innocent.

I would rather like to see a murderer to still have access to the community ledger and to the banker (if they can get there without dying or being killed) BUT no other player interactive blue npc (including quests). I like the guards debuffing murderers and yes it gives them something real to do.

I like the NO TRADE with other players, although a skillful player with a good memory or notes would be able to survive with a lot of work to keep reagensts replenished. With this thought in mind I would like to add that a muderer can not group with non-muderers. This limited grouping would mean that if and when they lost red status they would not have a prearraigned form for gathering runes/gear, having them picked up/transported/stored by innocents, and returned later.

I also have yet to formulate thoughts on guilds/murderere or those who belong to guilds. If their guild has no disagreements I think that they should be allowed the protection of the guild and guild hall, just not sure about the interface of actions/inactions.


Pat

[DravenCrow]

Being and innocent and staying that way I can attest to a few things that are most annoying and interferring with game play:

1) Attacker being able to take reagents and sellable items ie bloody meat, sulfur stones
2) Attacker is still able to attack same player over and over as they respawn
3) Attacker can be a level 30 killing a level 21

For the type of gameplay I use which is assisting others and completing my quests, these are the types of things that interferre the most.

To be running to help with a boss and be arbitrarily killed by a higher level character then to have reagents taken significantly impacts the ability to play. To some who have more gold etc, this may not seem like a big deal, but I am not loaded lol I have to either buy more reagents which the attacker will most likely take again on my way to the boss because that is this type of murderer's MO or stop to find more. It pulls me out of gameplay.

For attackers to take items that are sellable is the newest frustration I experienced. After completing a Crypt run or similar goodie drop quests to have a murderer take everything I have earned is messed up. I really think the towns should be off limits for PvI (Person attacking innocent). I know you guys/gals have seen innocents getting hammered before they reach the bar or banker door. I was attacked in Helmstead in the Alchemist's building, there was no refuge and the guy took the items I was going to sell to get potions.

The last one, level 30 attacking 21 over and over. I still don't get the debuffing thing, why is the attacker allowed to kill an innocent 5 times in a row? Either there should be a restriction for level v level so that 30s cannot attack early 20s or at minimum, the attacker cannot attack the same player for an hour ala Outwar.

I completely support the idea that innocents do not drop anything, I would think that would remove the inncentive to kill them. Also, it evens the playing field a bit more as the innocent will still be able to cast spells with their reagents or at minumum try to strategize how to get back to the area they were trying to get to. I dont think murderer's should get any reward for killing Innocents, it is too imbalanced.

[elecjester]

Well, if we have to learn to live with this new system and are going to be forced into PvP I think the least they could do is not making you RED after ONE white kill.

There are some very valid times (like when your defending yourself from multiple attackers) where you might end up killing a white name.

Personally I think the "outlaw" title gets totally overlooked. A simple hit makes you a outlaw, should take a little more than that imho.

It should take a LITTLE effort to become a murderer if the devs wish us to police ourselves, instead of this 1 kill crap and then your stuck red for an entire week waiting for a pardon. Not to mention if I got all those debuffs that max is talking about after 1 kill ... someone that NEEDED to be killed ... I would not be happy.

[Pat2]

DravenCrow has some good points.

Innocents should not lose all that stuff, they are usually lower levels and don't have the money to replace reagents, food, etc.

I agree that a one innocent kill per 24 hour time period should not result in red status. There are some innocents that just need to be killed or get killed via an accident. The repeated killing of innocents, especially the same innocent, within a 24 hour time period is not what I would consider an accident.

Since a murderer is a generally (BUT NOT ALWAYS) also a thief, I have no problems with theives having to wait a week to get a pardon and not being able to use any NPC for the selling of items or trading items with other players. But those players that are classed as murderers who are "Policing" those murderer/thieves or those "innocents" that personally insult you till you want to kill them, are good for the community.

When the time comes for me to murder an innocent, I will gladly pay the "price" or penalty, since I will have totally justified my becoming a murderer and if I'm that upset you can bet that they will die over and over and over... They will become a KOS for me and a new personal quest in game, even if I have to build a new character with color combos just to kill them or their alternates / multi's / etc.
"Hell hath no fury like..." "Revenge is a dish best served cold"

I am quick to vote for pardons of those murderers who police the game. I am quicker to vote NO for those who are the problems that need policing and I can think of several. I check the community ledger almost every time I am in game and vote. I also follow the chat box and if you are killing innocents regularly -- you are a no vote.

Pat

ps if you use the ledger as a "trash" message box system, then never become a murderer since you are an automatic no vote from me. The ledger has a purpose and is not an in game message board for "trash" messages. Personally, I think if you leave "trash" messages, clogging up the board, your character should be jailed for at least 48 hours.

[elecjester]

I agree pat.

There is way too many messages that just clutter the board up.

perhaps having some tabs at the top for "spam" - "questions" - "requests" - "pardons" etc would be a good idea?!

[Holycannoli]

What about the people who murder you for no reason other than they want to kill the boss you've been camping and who just spawned in front of you? Shouldn't they get instant murderer status with a debuff, even if you're the only white they've killed?

[Pat2]

Holycannoli,

Good point, I just have no idea how to provide a suggestion for managing that type of situation. There must be away, but I would be afraid that it would require massive tracking capability and databases of each player and each situation OR just to turn all players red and debuff them, that kill any white player the moment it happens.

opps I just killed an innocent on accident while we were trying to kill a really tough "boss" -- now what?

Pat

[elecjester]

it's going to be impossible to institute any kind of system like your describing holy, and to be quite honest, I think it's totally unnecessary.

I know myself when I camp a boss, I know exactly which monsters I killed, in which order, and which ones are going to spawn first, second, etc ..

So, in that regard I know exactly where the boss is going to pop, and roughly when (provided it has a place holder).

So really, the person camping has a much larger advantage, since they can position themselves to hit first. Now granted you can always ask them to wait, or if you need it for a quest, to party up ... but really no one is under any obligation to help you.

I am not saying any of this to be mean, or rude, I am simply realistic.

Now, on the other hand, if you are killing the boss, and someone comes up and kills you simply to steal the boss -- kinda low....unless of course you brought it on yourself, by doing something to offend the person, or if you simply are one of those troublesome players that have nothing better to do all day than run around and kill and loot the lowbies.

I have no pity for them.

However, after all is said and done - as I have suggested in the past ....

Quest bosses should respawn VERY quickly and should never be required kills for runes. (I had suggested no longer than 15minutes for quest bosses).

Rune bosses at low levels, (since this is where a major bottleneck in the game takes place, due to the influx of new players and older players rerolling alts) should spawn roughly the same, maybe every 20minutes at most.

Mid level rune bosses 30 minutes or so

High level rune bosses 1 hour.

This is of course place holders are taken care of.

Now, someone had said in the past "but this will flood the game with runes" and "this will make the game too easy" ... but then I have this question:

"Is the game all about hunting runes that you can use at level 20 and not even seeing until your in your 40s?"

No...

The game has many PvE elements as well as (now anyways) a very strong PvP element.

Now granted, there are more and more people flooding the server every day (we were at 100 players online the other day), so while the bosses might spawn faster, the amount of runes needed grows as well (both in new characters and in alts), so it kinda balances out.

As I also mentioned (in another thread), there are FAR FAR more productive methods of creating time sinks in a game than to make us camp a single boss for 18 hrs every day for a week to try to get 1 rune. Anyone that thinks that method is ok, seriously needs their head examined.

So sure, there are both downsides and upsides to increasing rune availability either via faster spawning bosses, or higher drop rates, but the negatives can seriously become non-existent depending on what you have in place to keep the players occupied.

Currently there isn't much to do in the game besides farm bosses, do the few quests that exist here and there and run around the world looking to hunt down the people that have slighted you in some manner.

So sure, in that regard since rune hunting is such a major part of the game right now (since there is very little else to do) increasing the rate at which we get them may seem like a very huge and drastic step. However like I said, the game simply needs to fill out abit more, offer more things to do (many suggestions have been made on this) and thus, in the long run, the drop rate for runes / spawn times on bosses will become very trivial if increased.

[McSneaky]

So let me sum this up. You want COP to be a PvE only game. Maybe instead of trying to change the game, you should encourage the next server to be PvE only. I fully support the new server being PvE only and think it would rid the rest of us of Max's complaints.

Unfortunately Max the developers have implemented PvP into the game and even advertised the game as FFA PvP. If you have a problem with a murderer you can do various things to stop them. Let me suggest putting out a bounty, gathering a group to hunt the murderer, or camp the murderer so they can't lvl up. There are plenty of things you can do to prevent murderers from being extra evil.

[Cold Steel]

So let me sum this up. You want COP to be a PvE only game.

Thats what I'm getting from these posts, I only came here for the FFA PvP.

[Holycannoli]

But some people take FFA PvP to mean "run around and kill people when they're weakest and not expecting it"

FFA PvP does not mean go around and murder people. You can tell by the fact that most of the population doesn't do this. It's really just a handful of people.

When you say "I came here for the FFA PvP" I hear "I came here to gank people, kill them while they fight mobs, and kill them while they're afk".

[McSneaky]

I did not come to COP to gank people, I came to play the game. People complain about PvP way too much. Instead of complaining about it, ask admins for a PvE server and you might get one. FFA PvP means you can kill anyone anywhere. The game has put in restrictions to prevent a high lvl from killing a low lvl. For example if a lvl 50 kills a lvl 20, the lvl 50 get no loot and a divine punishment.

People complain about my play style and I will sum it up for you. I went red at 20 killing anyone I could come across. My goal was to be an evil player. Within 5 kills I was being camped by a lvl 50, and oh btw a lvl 50 can kill a lvl 20 murderer with 1 insta spell 1000 times and receive no punishment. So I figured I had to lvl. To do this I took over spots. If I saw someone there and they did not want to group with me, I tried to kill them. Sometimes I had the spot for an hour or so and other times a lvl 50 showed up and killed me. And YES I do and have grouped with plenty of people. Most of the times when I am grouped and a higher lvl sees me they kill me. Ruining the quest for not only me, but for the person I grouped with. Wow that sounds exactly what you are complaining about....

Red players give some white players an excuse to whine about griefing, but allows those players to grief the reds.

OH, did I mention I followed the rules put into the game to prevent camping/griefing? I kill nobody 10 lvls below me. I kill nobody twice withing an hour unless they are 5 lvls within my lvl and attack me again. Guess what happens if I don't follow those rules? I get a divine punishment.

Here is what I suggest. If you dislike me, don't /w death threats, call me a f*ggot in /world, or just plain try to grief me. Offer a bounty on my death. Find me when I am hunting and kill me. Gather a group together and hunt me down. Grow a pair and do something about it. STOP WHINING.

[Holycannoli]

Instead of giving us a PvE server, maybe they'll give you a true FFA PvP server.

Here's the biggest problem I see with the current system: Whites drop their reagents when murdered. So what does that mean? That means murderers have a ready supply of every reagent they need, which completely negates the double price of vendors. Who cares what vendors charge when you get them for free? It's the whites, the innocents, that suffer, since they have to go buy those reagents again or hunt a while and gather more.

Know what I would like to see?: If you have a divine punishment city guards will attack you on sight. That means staying away from civilization until it wears off. No porting, no banking, no buying more reagents. And if they kill you you get sent to jail for being a repeat offender. Let's face it: Only a few people in game need to worry about this if it were implemented.

[McSneaky]

Holy I would love a server with just FFA PvP. For some reason people think such a server would be a complete failure, but in reality they are the most popular. My background is the Darktide server on Asheron's Call. It was a true FFA PvP server. Other things such as macroing ruined the game for me, PvP.

I like your idea of having guards attack Red players. To add on that I suggest having white only cities, neutral cities, and red only cities. White cities would have guards attack red players and the same for red cities. Neutral cities would allow both red and white in and guards would attack any player that attacks another. Also turn PvP on in cities. This would allow players to group together and attack cities.

[Holycannoli]

Pretty good idea. Each city should have it's own benefits too. But I'm not sure that's the direction the devs want to take. Other games have similar setups.

[DravenCrow]

So let me sum this up. You want COP to be a PvE only game. Maybe instead of trying to change the game, you should encourage the next server to be PvE only. I fully support the new server being PvE only and think it would rid the rest of us of Max's complaints.

Unfortunately Max the developers have implemented PvP into the game and even advertised the game as FFA PvP. If you have a problem with a murderer you can do various things to stop them. Let me suggest putting out a bounty, gathering a group to hunt the murderer, or camp the murderer so they can't lvl up. There are plenty of things you can do to prevent murderers from being extra evil.


What you are not grasping is that there are more players that do not want to spend time or gold on you. With the way you "play" a person would be foolish thinking that the bounty is not being paid to one of your buddies. The "best" murderers do not even loot, they like the fight. You on the otherhand do not as you do not accept PvP challenges inworld arena style with others watching. There is a growing trend of players that enjoy watching Tuxide vs Mammon or Nub and Sin vs large groups that mutually consent to battle.

I think the Arena should be used, people do not go red in them and spawn in their corners for the next round of battle. I would love to compete to see how I do. 1vs1 or a bloodbath of teams/guilds vs guilds/teams. Players could wager on who will win. It could also encourage people to buy points to get stats and bling for their battle armor :)

[McSneaky]

What part of "level based" do you not understand? A one handed lvl 45 with no mouse and 3 FPS can beat a lvl 40. Do you honestly think I am going to accept a 1 v 1 challenge against a lvl 50 when I am lvl 30? The ironic thing is when I was lvl 20 and pvping, lvl 30s would call me out for not fighting them 1 v 1. Now that I have out lvled them, they do not request to fight me, but instead complain in /world how unfair it is that I kill them.

Give me one good reason I should not loot? I remember after I killed my first person at lvl 20, I was shortly killed by a lvl 27 and looted. FUNNY STORY I actually thought I could log out and be white again...oh well. I am still red and enjoy it very much. Every person that has killed me in any situation, with the exception of a few people with full packs or did not for whatever reason, I have been looted. Why would I not loot when I get looted? Usually I only loot what I need. The minute I see the person I just killed in /world calling me names or complaining....guess what next time I loot everything.

Contrary to popular belief I am a nice person and I do help people. Ask around you might find people I have grouped with and I don't kill every time I see them. I guarantee you that these people have never called me names and complained about me.

[DravenCrow]

What part of "level based" do you not understand? A one handed lvl 45 with no mouse and 3 FPS can beat a lvl 40. Do you honestly think I am going to accept a 1 v 1 challenge against a lvl 50 when I am lvl 30? The ironic thing is when I was lvl 20 and pvping, lvl 30s would call me out for not fighting them 1 v 1. Now that I have out lvled them, they do not request to fight me, but instead complain in /world how unfair it is that I kill them.

Give me one good reason I should not loot? I remember after I killed my first person at lvl 20, I was shortly killed by a lvl 27 and looted. FUNNY STORY I actually thought I could log out and be white again...oh well. I am still red and enjoy it very much. Every person that has killed me in any situation, with the exception of a few people with full packs or did not for whatever reason, I have been looted. Why would I not loot when I get looted? Usually I only loot what I need. The minute I see the person I just killed in /world calling me names or complaining....guess what next time I loot everything.

Contrary to popular belief I am a nice person and I do help people. Ask around you might find people I have grouped with and I don't kill every time I see them. I guarantee you that these people have never called me names and complained about me.


Mcneaky I am Loraccio and I am level 39 you are now what level 37? You have the frontiersman cape. Yesterday you were at least 36 and I was a level 38. You attacked me AFK where Jagged Axe spawns (yes I still needed the quest!). I called out to you inworld to accept my challenge face to face after you murdered me. You did not respond. I called you a coward as I do for anyone that attacks a player with their back turned to them. Everytime you have tried to attack me and my buddy, you have done so while we are fighting mobs. That is cowardly and I say it to your face and I have said nothing worse. You did loot my sellable items and re-agents.

[mrxafiar]

What part of "level based" do you not understand? A one handed lvl 45 with no mouse and 3 FPS can beat a lvl 40. Do you honestly think I am going to accept a 1 v 1 challenge against a lvl 50 when I am lvl 30? The ironic thing is when I was lvl 20 and pvping, lvl 30s would call me out for not fighting them 1 v 1. Now that I have out lvled them, they do not request to fight me, but instead complain in /world how unfair it is that I kill them.



Hey McChicken ;)
The reason people complain about you is because you attack them while they are off guard, either when they are afk or when they are being attacked by a mob. That way you will always win, especially if the target is only a few levels above or below you.

Im OK with you PvPin, its all part of the game. What Im not OK is with you doing what you do (attack when the target is busy). Thats just show how fair you like to play ;)

[rufneck]

how about that u will need a pardon from the person u killed to become normal again and untill then penalties like in the first tread apply pardon needs to be 1 on 1 not 1 requesting pardon from everyone

[DravenCrow]

Last night same thing, kills my friend while my friend was attacking an Ogre hut. He runs to the graveyard to heal himself, comes out to attack then retreats to the graveyard. Basically not affording my friend the chance to fight back for the re-agents he took. I challenged him again 1vs1. Mcsneaky is now a level 38. He still will not have an honorable PvP. Hiding in a graveyard gives him the upperhand to control the attacking which I think they need to take away from murderers. One thing if they die, but I am not going to waste my time on him while he runs back and forth.

He is a multi imo, and I am suspecting he is primal who has not been around in awhile

[mrxafiar]

Last night same thing, kills my friend while my friend was attacking an Ogre hut. He runs to the graveyard to heal himself, comes out to attack then retreats to the graveyard. Basically not affording my friend the chance to fight back for the re-agents he took. I challenged him again 1vs1. Mcsneaky is now a level 38. He still will not have an honorable PvP. Hiding in a graveyard gives him the upperhand to control the attacking which I think they need to take away from murderers. One thing if they die, but I am not going to waste my time on him while he runs back and forth.

He is a multi imo, and I am suspecting he is primal who has not been around in awhile

I dont think he will ever have an honorable fight. Hes just too weak, he cant beat ANYONE unless they are busy or afk. Hes just a disgrace to the game and just ruins the entertainment for other players. Guys like him should be banned from game.

[tripp]

He is a multi imo, and I am suspecting he is primal who has not been around in awhile

lol i was thinking the same thing

[gangstadaveNOPE]

maxblade does camp people

[max1808]

Honestly guys, this is whr we shud pop out our ideas for a better PvP in the future. Forget abt players hiding in gy killing etc etc

The current PvP system we have is sort of fun. Speaking of thinking twice of being a murderer now didnt come into my mind back in those days.

There are some other players loves being a murderer still and doing their best to play the game like Mcsneaky. He is playing the game and abiding by the rules at the same time. So pretty much u cant say "Hes killing players whom are afk", "He hides in gy suddenly atks", etc etc. We have to safeguard ourselves and be alert in Any Means Necessary. Here's a tip if u think McSneaky will hunt u down everytime he gets on, add him to your friends list so that u can see if he is online or not and at least can be aware :)

And also it would be more challenging if murderers DO NOT have a safe zone other than gy or buildings. Why i say this is because some murderers i've noticed, after he/she gets a kill, and if the loot was heavenly, they tend to port to Tulorn / DC (whole city is a safe zone) bank the good stuffs and go hunting again. Maybe they shud be given more of a challenge while running to bank. This can be challenging and at the same time this will definitely make innocent players to think more before they decide to be a murderer ;)

Hope to see this post reviewed :)

maxblade
Justice League

P/S : To Goon / Chaos, Yes I Do Camp. And its you and you only i will till the CoP community says otherwise. Have Fun :)

[McSneaky]

Well first LOL @ Draven. Yes we have been fighting each other, but I have never seen you alone. Every time I have tried to fight you 1v1, one of your buddies jumps in. Also the time "I jumped you" at orge mound, I ran up and told you hi. You attacked me. What do you want me to do, lay down and die? No, I am going to try and chase you out.

Second to Max. Trust me, murderers have it hard enough. We all did not lvl in the safety of white and turn red at 50.

[elecjester]

We all did not lvl in the safety of white and turn red at 50.

Lol ....

Where is the safety in being white with people like you, and goon, all the others that run around pickin off random white people constantly.

The only different is what they will drop and to be honest, if you banked often, it wouldnt be any different if you were red.

[DravenCrow]

You lie worse than goon

Enough time wasted on you